Up The Junction(s)
Created by flumperThere was a letter sent into Quedgeley News this month about the chicanes on the new Naas Lane - Woodvale Link road, suggesting it was dangerous….
Now is it just me, but they worked before they put the white lines down, where priority was the other way, giving way before the chicane (with it on the same side of the road), which is how it works down Thatcham Avenue and School Lane. Could it be possible they have incorrectly marked up the road and simply changed signs to suit? As I have to agree, it doesn’t work having to move over onto the wrong side of the road, which oncoming traffic and not 100% sure as to whether they are going to give way?
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June 10th, 2013 at 8:52 pm
It’s not just you!
QUVL seem to have a problem with these “chicanes”…
Remember the first one on Thatcham Avenue? For years the signs gave priority to traffic coming OUT of the Village, (even though Highway Code rules clearly state that priority/right-of-way should be given to traffic on the opposite side from an obstruction)!
It was interesting that they changed that priority just before the road was marked up for adoption! (And-rather predictably, it was also the cause of several near-misses just after the signage was changed)
I was amazed when those traffic-calming “chicanes” were marked up - once again in the “wrong way”
I wonder if we’ll have to wait until that road is near-adoption before they correct the error… (I have a feeling that may be a long way off)
If he hasn’t already heard, I will definitely raise this with Andy Smith next time I see him.
Clive.
@flumper I hope you don’t mind that I changed your comment into a post (it was originally added to this thread: Access to the Kingsway Community Centre). It’s something I was going to post about, so you beat me to it (thanks)
June 10th, 2013 at 10:36 pm
Yes I agree flumper with your following comments ‘it doesn’t work having to move over onto the wrong side of the road, which oncoming traffic and not 100% sure as to whether they are going to give way?’
It’s obvious if traffic has to move onto the other side of the road into oncoming traffic, the chances of an accident increases significantly. Why chicanes and not humps like on Rudloe drive? I know the emergency services don’t like humps, well let’s hope they don’t have to travel too often down Rudloe as there’s a fair amount of humps on that road.
Well let’s hope someone sees sense and changes the give way signage and markings soon, otherwise there could be chaos once Asda is built with the likely increase in traffic around those parts.
Sometimes I wonder who thinks up the design of some of the traffic calming measures on today’s busy roads and what research/evidence backs up the reasoning for that particular scheme…barmpots comes to mind!
June 12th, 2013 at 10:16 am
I agree, the chicanes are the wrong way around. A few near misses, then this morning a woman starts giving me hand gestures because I go as it was my right of way! It’s not my fault they have been designed that way. Next time she should read the “give way” signs!
Hopefully someone will pick this up and get it changed before there is an accident!
June 12th, 2013 at 12:44 pm
I too have had a couple of near misses as people either ignore the “give way” signs or don’t know whose right of way it is. It worked ok until the road markings were introduced. Also who’s bright idea was it to put a bus stop in the middle of the chicanes? It could have done with going a little further down the road. There are now three bus stops along that short stretch of road!
June 14th, 2013 at 11:38 am
I forgot to mention that the Residents Association has received correspondance about this issue, which was minuted in our (committee) meeting from 28th May (minutes are available here)… See Item 3b - Joe Logan (Chairman) will raise this issue with QUVL.
June 15th, 2013 at 12:04 pm
For your benefit I have attached copies of Traffic Advisory Leaflet 9/94 and Local Transport Note 1/07, both of which offer guidance on signing and lining at traffic calming features, including chicanes and build-outs. You will note that the 1994 Traffic Advisory Leaflet provides no guidance as to which approach should have priority, it only suggest that it may be necessary to assign priority. It further suggest that is may be necessary to provide signing, but with a suggestion that in most cases give way road marking should be sufficient.
The more recent 2007 guidance recommends in Chapter 6 , under ‘Design considerations: signing and marking’ that ‘give ‘way’ markings and signs can be used to indicate which direction has priority. There is, therefore, no right or wrong at to which approach should have priority.
It should also be noted that sc 172 of The Highway Code states that you must give way to traffic where broken white lines are provided across a road (Road Traffic Act 1988 sc36).
The benefit of giving priority to traffic on the build out side is the fact that speed is reduced in both directions; the traffic with priority has to slow down to negotiate the build out and the traffic in the opposing direction have to slow down because they do not have priority.
However, in light of concerns raised by yourself and the road users, I have asked QUVL to relocate the priority signs onto the nearside verge and off the build outs themselves and also to provide additional warning signs on the approach.
If you have any queries, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Neil Troughton MCIHT
Area Manager (Highways - Forest of Dean, Gloucester and Stroud)
Development Management
Gloucestershire County Council
PDF’s not attached here.
June 15th, 2013 at 9:06 pm
Hi Neil,
Thank you very much for the post, and for agreeing to swap the signs
I take your point about reducing traffic in both directions, although in this case having islands (or “build-outs”) in both directions means that the same thing is automatically achieved either way.
I’m slightly suprised that recent legislation allows for priority in either direction, although I guess that’s intended to allow for the “illogical choice” to be used when circumstances dictate that it would be safer to do so. In this situation I don’t see any particular advantage to the current configuration.
I believe the road markings are key in our case; without them most drivers would/should naturally assume the opposite priority. This is risky because not all drivers are attentive to signs and even give way lines (the double broken white lines you referred to) can be missed in times of poor visibility or distractions, thus I believe the opposite configuration will prove to be safer.
Thanks again for your help and cooperation, and for posting here
June 26th, 2013 at 7:51 pm
Clive - I think you may have misinterpreted what Judge/Neil has stated, and all that has happened is that the signs have been moved for what is deemed by the council as ‘improved visibility’.
The priority is still staying the same!! I agree, with most that have posted on this topic, that this does not feel natural and can only result in an increased likelihood of an accident.
Whilst i can understand the comment that the current layout should reduce speed in both directions, the close proximity of these build outs just seems ridiculous….
June 27th, 2013 at 10:47 am
Hi @thatcham,
You may well be right… I also heard from another source that they were going to be swapped around, although he may well have simply misinterpreted the above comment too. I do hope not as I’ve already seen several near-misses there, so I guess it’s just a matter of time before an accident happens
June 27th, 2013 at 4:16 pm
I just followed a bus who failed to give way at the lines, but was then forced to give way when he had priority as there was not enough room between the chicane and the car “giving way” for him to get over… Crazy set up!
June 28th, 2013 at 7:48 pm
What is going on? They have now moved the signs onto the left on the pavement, people are not seeing them and it’s getting crazy. People are getting mad with one another and it’s not their fault. This needs sorting before an accident happens or a nasty argument!
June 28th, 2013 at 10:21 pm
The crazy gang of QUVL contractors comes to mind!
If one is heading towards Kingsway on the road and turning left into Bar Bar nursery road, your car moves over to the right of the road as you’re passing the chicane, then a sharp left to turn left as there’s little space between the chicane and give way markings!
I think getting the Citizen newspaper to cover a story about the set up may make QUVL think again. Whoever thought up the design and implementation should be brought to task and ask them “why oh why”?
If everybody followed the give way markings there would be very few problems but hey ho that ain’t going to happen. The same set up as Thatcham Av’ chicanes would probably make things a little safer and more workable.
I hope the Area Manager as above reads the comments and takes action if poss’.
July 11th, 2013 at 3:55 pm
Changing the signage isn’t working, I am resorting to giving way to oncoming vehicles regardless of the direction I am travelling in, whether it is my right of way or not, as it’s the only way I can ensure I am not involved in an accident. It’s getting worse, people either don’t know how to drive on the roads or they are just choosing to ignore the signs; I am still witnessing near-misses almost every day.
The give-way markings are also too close to the chicane. If you are the car with the right of way it’s a tight squeeze trying to navigate around it and trying not to hit the car waiting for you to pass; again I have taken to waiting further back on the road.
I am sure I am not the only one who thinks it’s an accident waiting to happen!
July 15th, 2013 at 10:35 am
I use the road in question quite often. I’m not too sure I agree with it being a particular problem. We should all be reading the road and the signs are clear as to who has priority.
I’d even go as far to say that those who are giving way regardless of it being their right of way, are the ones causing an issue. By giving way when the other party should be, you’re the one causing confusion and for other drivers - no one knows who should be going and you get in to all sorts of trouble.
July 16th, 2013 at 5:40 pm
Ok I see your point, but as you approach from Naas Lane way, you stop and give way to oncoming cars as the sign says. Slightly further down the road another car is also doing the same. Who then has right of way (I am probably not explaing properly)! Maybe instead of two chicanes there should be just one?
October 16th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
3 near-misses here in the last week that I’ve seen… (I’ve lost count of how many I’ve seen since the road opened)… It’s only a matter of time before something serious happens.
October 17th, 2013 at 7:03 am
I actually thought it got better, I guess those using the road regularly soon learnt who had priority. However, the opening in the new Asda has brought people who aren’t aware of the unusual priority and is creating a few near misses. Both my husband and I have had one and I see someone has taken down the bollard?