The Yellow Lines Cometh
Created by Barry KirbyLooks like the yellow lines on Thatcham Avenue will be upon us imminently according to a letter through our door today.
It still begs the question, where, exactly, do they expect us to park? Our friends, visitors etc.
Suggestions on a post card, and before it’s said, I’ve already asked and I can’t afford a new house with a driveway!
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Edit: (Added by Clive): Letter received today as follows:
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Dear Residents,
Proposed Changes to the Kingsway Development On-Street Parking
With reference (to) the above, on behalf of Quedgeley Urban Village Limited (QUVL), please note that double yellow lines and associated road markings will be taking place on roads in your area from Wednesday 17th September 2008.
To facilitate these works, we would respectfully ask you not (to) park your vehicles on Thatcham Avenue and Valley Gardens on or after the date mentioned above.
Although these roads will remain in private ownership in the foreseeable future, these works are an essential requirement for Quedgeley Urban Village to meet various planning conditions relating to residential parking, providing safe access for emergency vehicles and to provide a safety zone for the forthcoming opening of the new Kingsway Primary School.
I hope that we have your full co-operation in this matter. Any illegally parked vehicles will unfortunately be clamped and ultimately removed.
Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any queries.
Yours Sincerely,
Andrew Hunter
Project Manager for QUVL.
Telephone: 01452 723200
E-Mail: a.hunter@gardiner.com
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September 16th, 2008 at 7:12 am
We’ve had the yellow lines outside on Woodvale for a year now. It is a pain and I’ve asked the question “Why we cannot have lay-bys for people to park in?”
It will be monitored for a while as it was on Woodvale, but after a while no-one does anything about it. People will no doubt start to ignore the lines and park on them anyway as they currently do on Woodvale (Ski-Tyres van by the lights)!
September 16th, 2008 at 10:44 am
Hi Baz,
I added the letter in full for those who didn’t get it!
I must say I was a little suprised to get this! Where I live the entire length of Thatcham Avenue already has double-yellow lines, so I can only surmise that they intended it to serve as a notice to residents that they intend to enforce the parking restrictions (I would also question whether the term "illegally parked" is strictly correct)!
So – back to the original debate – (without a debate it seems – lol)!
Where are visitors supposed to park?
Why restrict the entire length of Thatcham Avenue when there is a considerable stretch which could be safely parked on?
Why are there no additional “parking areas” for visitors and residents?
What about houses with 2 cars?
It’s all very well saying that people shouldn’t buy houses with only one space when they need two, but that’s very unrealistic… Take myself for example: I have one parking space. When I moved here we had one vehicle – a people carrier – but Angelina started a new job a few months ago and so we had to get rid of the carrier and purchase 2 cars instead.
Should we move? That’s (obviously) pretty ridiculous!
Up to now we have been able to use an additional space belonging to one of our neighbours who has been parking on (a safe part of) Thatcham Avenue… What happens tomorrow?
Should we park (legally) elsewhere on Kingsway? That’s likely to mean taking a space which has – until now – been used by somebody else!
Do we really have to park several streets away and hope for the best?
Roads without lines will be swamped with cars if something more isn’t done to solve this problem.
There is no additional accessible legal parking in the vicinity of our house!
It’s already a nightmare weaving around cars to get to our car park.
Visitors just have to park on the lines and hope for the best.
Personally I think it’s pretty unreasonable.
I’m fully in favour of safe roads and stopping careless and dangerous parking, but wholesale restrictions will cause nothing but disdain and ill-feeling, which will – ultimately – lead to residents ignoring restrictions… and nothing will improve.
September 16th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
I must add this point: Is what they doing legal? Plus will they also not park there own vehicles on the road as well?
They say the road is still a private road… Does that mean it’s still their legal property which entiltles them to put down yellow lines? Also if it’s their road, for any damage done to cars by raised manhole covers etc we should claim off them then!
September 17th, 2008 at 9:35 am
I have had some dialogue with Mr Hunter (Main man at QUVL) WRT this and the main bits of his reply are as follows:
Barry,
many thanks for the email. Whilst we have certain planning conditions to adhere to, we will not be providing double yellow lines all the way up both roads. We will be leaving some parking areas, as these provide good speed reduction measures – I would not want to create a speed circuit, but I do want residents to e able to enjoy their surroundings and be able to accept visitors with cars. These measures do have Consortium Board members approval and I do know that various developers had said there were to be no double yellow lines, but I believe they were not authorised to suggest that was the case!
There are few issues here for us
1. providing a safe route to and from the new primary school
2. allowing emergency vehicles unprecedented access to all areas of the development
3. creating a safer place for residents and children
4. reducing potential accident hot spots
5. Complying with the requirements of the school safety zone
6. Providing a clear access for future buses.
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Personally, this and some other discussions I have had with him lead me to believe he is activly thinking and adapting the plans in line with concerns which I think is a good thing. Initially the plan was for full lines everywhere and as we can see this is changing.
I will be having a discussion with him regarding other parking plans, but I see this reply as a reasonably positive step. (Though I’d be happier with wider roads and more forethought in the initial plans).
Barry
September 17th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Hi Baz,
That’s really good news
Of course restrictions have to be there in order to protect the children in the School area and I certainly wouldn’t want Thatcham Avenue to be "Line-Free"… (Parked cars may be awkward to navigate around but they do provide a deterrent to joy-riders and speed freaks)!
I agree that the initial plans might have been a little more generous in terms of road widths, although I think that the existing roads are adequate and – with careful forethought – a solution can be reached which will suit everybody and provide reasonable parking without danger and inconvenience.
Now… where did I leave my car?
September 18th, 2008 at 2:56 am
Which parts of Thatcham Avenue are to be double yellowed?
This sounds a good idea, although residents MUST make full use of their own parking facilities if there is going to be parking available for visitors etc….
September 18th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Strange how all the visitors have decided not to actually visit tonight LOL
September 24th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Just returned from holiday yesterday, cannot believe my eyes!
No cars parked across my drive.
What a pleasure we were able to drive straight on to the drive.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Good news Tog. I suggest those people for whom the lines have actually improved things, may want to write the Mr Hunter and thank him!
I am pleased to say in the past week I have been able to drive down Thatcham without as much hassle, or no such worry about knocking a child down (and believe me, I don’t exceed 20mph).
September 26th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Sorry, I am very unhappy with the lines. I have nowhere to park cars in a safe manner and our friends who visit (generally in the day, most with children and some pregnant) find this is generally unsatisfactory! I am certainly pushing for something to happen to achieve a more happy compromise.
I guess not everybody will be happy no matter what, but I find a commuter village with such an inhospitable attitude to cars is bizarre!
September 27th, 2008 at 5:53 am
I must say whilst some parking areas have been left down the first stretch of Thatcham, they aren’t too well thought out!
The second parking stretch should have been longer (room for more cars and an impediment to speeding near the bend), and what’s worse is that it is opposite the only junction (an entrance to several houses) so parked cars will impede access to and from that junction!
With that said there is at least some allowance for parking on thsi stretch of the Avenue so it’s better than we were expecting.
September 28th, 2008 at 12:32 am
I am interested to see if there are other people on here who actually like the lines? So far there only appear to be 2 people who have made a positive comment about the lines going down, but on other parking threads there always seemed to be more!
When I bought my house I was told (as I believe many people were) that the whole of Thatcham was to be double-yellowed. In fact it was one factor in me choosing the house I did. As I am on a main stretch, I never wanted to live somewhere that looked like a car park.
However if these lines do not go down, then I am stuck with a house that is on a dangerous road, where access to property becomes incredibly difficult.
A difficult situation, but one which was pretty clear from the beginning in my opinion.
September 28th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
If the bit of parking beside Bryant would remain after they have gone, then that would be a very good compromise which would work. Then the lines stay down and keep the road clear AND we get a reasonably close place for visitors to park (and I can get Hertz to put my hire cars)
Anyone else think the same?
September 29th, 2008 at 1:50 am
Sounds a good idea to me. Do we know if Bryant have allocated the land for anything?
September 29th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Mclovin, I agree. Initially lines were always talked about, so everone should have been forewarned, and it is a whole lot nicer with them down. Over the last two weeks (since the letter) I don’t have issues with access to my house to unload my vehicle from shopping etc, and can look out the window without any eyesores.
It was quite amazing how empty the roads were the day after the letter, where did ALL those cars disappear to?
For me I welcome the lines. So QUVL, if you’re putting lines down again, stick with your conviction and do it thoughout.
September 30th, 2008 at 3:35 am
I think it would be a good idea to use the area by Bryant’s Sales Office for visitor’ parking.
I think the yellow lines do a great job. Firstly they keeps the traffic flowing well along Thatcham Avenue with no chance of children running out from behind parked cars; secondly it will be easier for service vehicles (eg: ambulances, fire engines, Police etc) to do their important work (you never know when you or I might need them)!
Have all houses on Kingsway a garage or allocated parking space? If the answer is yes then
why not use them? Or is the problem we want to get straight out of our cars and into our houses by the shortest route?
October 1st, 2008 at 1:21 am
People keep commenting about ‘Illegal Parking’.
The yellow lines that have been painted by QUVL have no legality behind them at all, all they amount to is a bit of paint on the floor. Should anybody get a ticket for ‘Illegal parking’ just treat as toilet paper!
The estate is still privately owned, but with a public right of way, so unless the council adopt the roads and put in place double yellows that are compliant with all the statutory requirements then these lines are meaningless.
Same goes for the meaningless “£1500 fine for improper use” sign on the underpass (What a load of tosh!).
October 1st, 2008 at 3:35 am
Hi folks,
Saab,
"It was quite amazing how empty the roads were the day after the letter, where did ALL those cars disappear to?"
Try driving through Kinloss Drive (access to my car park) and you’ll find out!
tog,
"no chance of children running out from behind parked cars"
Agreed, but the “flip-side” is – of course – that parked cars actually provide "traffic calming" and pevent "speed-freaks" from travelling at lethal speeds!
October 1st, 2008 at 4:41 am
Tog
“Have all houses on Kingsway a garage or allocated parking space? If the answer is yes then why not use them? Or is the problem we want to get straight out of our cars and into our houses by the shortest route?”
I do believe that every house has an allocated space, and a lot have a garage. And I do agree that this should be the first port of call for parking. However this does not help the issue of visitors and of 2 cars. To use my own situation, I only have one car and I park it in my allocated parking space, which is in front of my garage… no problem. If I was to get another car, then where do I park that? Given car sizes and the size of garages, then they are not always compatable (so I would buy a small car), but I get hire cars very often (business) and have to have them delivered. Where can they put them? There’s nowhere!
And visitors, I’m sure we all have a visitor occasionally (anything from friends to Police) and they have to be able to park somewhere. Whilst I think it cleans up Thatcham, all it does is move the problem, not solve it. At the end of the day, this is supposed to be a commuter village.
I know the Council are trying to make QUVL recognise their mistake in their phase 4 planning, but there is nothing they can really do to push them to help us. We have to rely on good will!
October 1st, 2008 at 6:03 am
Hi Holbeach,
You are quite right about the (lack of) legality of the yellow lines. However, the developers didn’t say anything about issuing parking tickets, they said “Any illegally parked vehicles will unfortunately be clamped and ultimately removed…” which they do – in fact – have the legal right to do!
So I would caution anybody against ignoring the lines on this basis, or you may find yourself having to pay a steep fine to have the clamps removed; a fine which – bearing in mind the fact that residents have been warned in advance and that the land is owned by the QUVL – would almost certainly be upheld in court (assuming you wanted to risk even further expense by disputing the matter)!
October 1st, 2008 at 7:14 am
Holbeach Miserable – what an attitude to have! Its people like you that cause problems for the rest of us trying to be amicable and gain some compromise with the situation at hand!
Lets all park outside your house and see how you like it!
October 1st, 2008 at 12:54 pm
I appreciate the concerns of the people living in Thatcham Avenue regarding their parking problems. I can fully understand what you are going through because I went through the same at my previous house. I live just off the Avenue, but let’s get this into perspective:
I am under no doubt that the majority of you have two cars, a minimum of one car space and possibly a garage. I also appreciate that you may have visitors needing parking spaces. But what annoys me is that you are blatantly parking in peoples spaces in other streets off Thatcham. I am sick to death of coming home from work and now having to worry about finding a space outside my house – especially when I don’t even live in Thatcham. My neighbours have had people from Thatcham parked right opposite their front doors! I am not a territorial / boundary snob, but I have worked hard all my life and have paid a lot of money for my house. Therefore I totally resent Thatcham residents parking outside our houses and effectively forcing their problems onto us.
So my advice to you is to deal with it and stop taking peoples spaces from side streets off the Avenue. It’s your problem; you bought that house and were probably made aware of the parking restrictions – which no doubt would have been in your deeds! Stop shifting the problem around the estate and onto other people who it does not concern. Clear out your garage, use it, use your parking space / spaces and show a bit of consideration to others.
What makes me laugh is that if I picked one of your houses and decided to park my car on your drive or front garden. I guarantee you would be giving me a one hell of an argument about it and would no doubt be calling the police. Just remember this you are doing no different to the people’s spaces you are taking off the Avenue……
October 2nd, 2008 at 12:56 am
Potatopete
Thank you for your kind words! Nice to see community spirit is alive and well!
What makes me laugh is that you make the assumption is that I (and others), without meeting us, are one of those who don’t give a monkeys about anyone else! Thanks for that.
Barry
October 2nd, 2008 at 5:07 am
The problem is not restricted to the main roads on Thatcham. Because we are not allowed to park on Woodvale itself, and haven’t been able to for some time, the rear of our house is jam packed with cars. Everyone has a space/garage but rarely uses them. If there were a fire at the rear of any one of the properties here the Fire Service would not be able to gain access with their appliances.
If I can quote the road traffic act:
You MUST NOT leave your vehicle or trailer in a dangerous position or where it causes any unnecessary obstruction of the road.
[Laws RTA 1988, sect 22 & CUR reg 103]
243
DO NOT stop or park
· near a school entrance
· anywhere you would prevent access for Emergency Services
· at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
· on the approach to a level crossing/tramway crossing
· opposite or within 10 metres (32 feet) of a junction, except in an authorised parking space
· near the brow of a hill or hump bridge
· opposite a traffic island or (if this would cause an obstruction) another parked vehicle
· where you would force other traffic to enter a tram lane
· where the kerb has been lowered to help wheelchair users and powered mobility vehicles
· in front of an entrance to a property
· on a bend
· where you would obstruct cyclists’ use of cycle facilities except when forced to do so by stationary traffic
Some of these offences are obviously happening all over the village (restricting access for emergency vehicles, parking on junction corners, in dangerous positions, etc).
How about we ask the local PCSO’s to do a sweep, ticket any dangerously parked vehicles (which this part is still under Police control not Council ) which may then make people think about the way and position that they park.
October 2nd, 2008 at 7:11 am
Unfortunately the Road Traffic Act does not apply until the roads are officially adopted.
I think with the School opening, Valley Gardens may be adopted soon but I’m not sure off the top of my head.
I think there are two issues here:
Firstly – The Village planning has been poor for a commuter village in terms of parking.
Secondly – In the lined areas, people need to be able to park their cars and at the moment the problem does not go away just by painting lines. All this does is move the cars into the village and annoy someone else.
This problem needs a compromise solution and not in-fighting.
People do need to utilise what space they already have (ie: your allocated parking space). If possible your garage as well, though for many reasons this may not be practical.
QUVL also need to continue on the line they have started ie:by not being too militant with the lines and continuing a practical approach.
QUVL also need to try and create more parking areas (such as my suggestion beside Bryant) which will be orderly and not force cars into bad parking in the village.
The Council for Phase 4 need to ensure parking is thought out properly.
We all need to take a realistic approach and not all be so “holier than thou” in terms of other’s needs.
What I would not want is people to have to take extreme measures like having to park on their front gardens etc!
October 2nd, 2008 at 11:45 am
I see the yellow line debate continues.
Just to Potato Pete, I can understand your frustrations as I cannot imagine having how annoying that situation must be.
I would personally like to see the Kingsway Residents Associaiton come up with a very real and viable solution and apply the relevent pressure on QUVL to implement it. Just a few things we need to consider though.
1) There is little or no visitor parking, however this is in all fairness the same on most modern estates that I have lived or been to. In fact my parents house is on an estate where it was supposed to be a car free zone with everybody getting the bus. (Trust me this place is bliss compared to over there)!
2) However it seems to me that to release any real form of visitor parking would be a thankless task as the residents will use them straight up and we would be back to square one. So how could we self regulate this?
3) Access is an issue down Thatcham with the cars, both for buses, emergency services, and there are increased dangers to pedestrians. And although I see the point about speed freaks, I’m afraid they are likely to drive like idiots regardless. (I have had a few near misses where Thatcham curves and there is a chicane).
4) Most modern families have 2 or more cars, but most houses in the size bracket have 1 space, and a garage. And although I am pretty sure I could park most cars in my garage, I would need to climb out through the sunroof!
5) There are those families that bought a house with parking in mind. I have been stung by this before and I mentioned my parents situation above. So when I bought my house I went for one with a long driveway. Should people in my situation be subjected to having cars parked directly outside their property?
6) And finally this is the 21st century and new houses no longer come with frontage, so most people living on Thatcham look out of their windows onto either a road or a line of cars. I believe this compounds the issue.
In Summary: I personally cannot think of a solution that fits everyone, BUT may I suggest that we try, otherwise this issue is potentially in danger of undermining the aims of the Residents Association.
Perhaps we could allot a fair chunk of time to a solution (not a moaning session about the issue) to the next Association meeting?
If you’ve read this far thanks…. I think I owe you that!
October 26th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Parking in Thatcham Avenue.
I have just had 16 people visit our house this afternoon for a very enjoyable birthday party.
My guests arrived in 5 cars and with our cars the total came to 7 cars.
We have 1 garage which we use every day and a drive on which the other car is parked.
All my guests cars parked by the builders store area on Thatcham Avenue, not one parked on the double yellow lines. So why can’t these illegally parked cars along Thatcham do the same?
It’s about time the clampers came and towed them away and made it better for all the people who do act responsibly.
Here is a prime example, the black car that parks almost on the traffic lights every day.
Where oh where are the clampers?
tog
October 26th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
I agree with you Tog,
But I’m afraid QUVl are gutless, toothless, and frankly feckin uselss…
Look at that I made poem
October 26th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
I completely agree tog.
Now that the yellow lines are finding their way around the Village, all these nuisance parkers are finding elsewhere to park. It’s great driving home through Valley Gardens now, especially as I don’t have to crawl past the large removal van that was constantly on the corner blocking the view of oncoming vehicles.
There is obviously alternative parking for all these vehicles as the amount of parked cars hasn’t increased in Lyneham Drive at all.
October 27th, 2008 at 12:11 am
Just to be picky, none of the cars along Thatcham are parked illegally, but against the conditions of QUVL. I believe they won’t start clamping until all the lines are down, and then the enforement will start.
Personally I think Tog is right, and the bit by Bryant is a great parking area (which I use when I have to), however this will disappear when the planned house gets built. Where would you park your 7 cars then? Even people who moan about people parking on double yellow’s on this site have their guests park outside their house (on double yellow’s) when it suits!
October 27th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
In answer to Baz k, when the land is taken up by Bryant’s (IE by the sales office) I will probably get my visitors to park their cars around by Millers compound – now that they are not on site – and so by doing this I will not be parking on the yellow lines.
I will look to the future when everyone will be able to drive down Thatcham Avenue with out having to pull in behind illegally parked cars to allow people to pass.
Come on Mr Clamper, MAKE MY DAY – I will be out there to shake you by the hand when your days work is done.
tog
October 29th, 2008 at 9:32 am
Hi Tog, I totally agree with you but I’m afraid on this website we appear to be part of the minority.
But hey-ho.. only another 5 years until our houses are worth the same amount we paid for them and it may actually be viable to sell.
Unless the builders sell them off cheap in which case I may just have to retire in Kingsway.
October 29th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Hi Mclovin,
Don’t worry about being in the minority, right will always triumph over wrong.
My belief is roads were made to drive on and garages and drives and allocated parking areas were meant to park our cars on.
Kingsway will be a good place to live when this economic crisis is over and we have all the amenities in place.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
I do hope so Tog, but I have very genuine fears that the current economic situation, and the balance sheets of QUVL will have an adverse affect on what was deemed to be a lovely estate.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Hi All,
I moved this most recent discussion from the old thread (Parking Restricted On Woodvale) to this one (more current and more relevant).
Mcl Said: "Hi Tog, totally agree with you but i’m afraid on this website we appear to be part of the minority.."
tog Said: "Don’t worry about being in the minority…"
I’m not sure where you guys get the idea that you’re in some sort of minority
Since Tog resurrected this thread to add his comment of October 26th, every subsequent contributor has agreed with him!
Everybody here seems to be of the same opinion(s):
We don’t want cars parked irresponsibly all over the Village.
We all want / need some sort of viable alternative for visitors (and residents with insufficient parking).
tog Said: "In answer to Baz k, when the land is taken up by Bryant’s (IE by the sales office) I will probably get my visitors to park their cars around by Millers compound"
That’s OK if you live near to the compound but Thatcham is a long road and providing alternative parking for one part of it isn’t going to solve issues for those who live too far away from there… like me
It would be much better for all if the main roads were car-free and nobody parked irresponsibly.
Like Baz_k said: "This problem needs a compromise solution and not in-fighting. "
tog – I hope you’re right when you say "Kingsway will be a good place to live when this economic crisis is over and we have all the amenities in place…" but I have a bad feeling that Mclovin may have a point about the economic climate.
Hey Ho – I’m not moving ’til I die (unless I win the WSOP – lol); I still like Kingsway more than most places I’ve lived and I also like the fact that so many people here are interested in the community
December 8th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Thatcham Avenue Parking – Again
I for one feel that something needs doing about this apart from putting signs up and yellow lines down… Act on your threats!
I was going to say it’s an accident waiting to happen but my wife witnessed one this week (Mon’ or Tues’) when a Range Rover reversed into a Mini due to people losing their cool because they were unable to exercise their right of way due to illegally parked cars!
With the roads getting dangerous now due to weather conditions, who are people going to blame if these illegally parked cars get damaged from vehicles sliding as they have to brake suddenly for oncoming cars or even worse a child running out between them?
I paid a lot of money for my house with a drive and garage like a lot of people on the site did and would like to gain access to my castle stress and hassle free; if you have more cars than your home can cope with legally why buy or rent that property?
What happens when the buses start running down Thatcham?
Then tonight as you drive out of Kingsway there are cars parked up on the grass of the main drag into the Village.
I thought I was buying a home on a nice new estate not a huge car park!
December 8th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Hi Russ,
I’m pretty sure you’ll find that – if you slide into a stationary vehicle (illegally parked or not) – it’s your fault… (your speed should be low enough to cope with the weather conditions)!
I too was disappointed to see all the cars parked on the grass verges down Woodvale; it really doesn’t look very nice when you enter the Village.